The Thing We Never Talk About

Timothy Iseler: Well,
thank you so much, Todd.

I really appreciate your time.

Todd Trainer: Yeah, my pleasure.

So nothing about finances?

Timothy Iseler: Hi everyone.

Welcome to The Thing We Never Talk About.

My name is Tim Iseler.

I'm a certified financial planner and I
run my own independent financial advisory

business, helping musicians, artists,
and other people with weird jobs make

smarter decisions with their money.

You can learn more at Iselerfinancial.com.

And if you have a question about money
or personal finance, please send it to me

by visiting Iselerfinancial.com/podcast

and I will answer it in a future episode.

And if you enjoy this podcast,
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Likes and subscribes are great, and
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new way, please share it with a friend.

Normally on the show I talk with people
who have weird jobs about career and

personal finance and living with money.

But today, for the last episode of the
year, I wanted to do something different.

My guest today is musician Todd Trainer.

Todd is best known as the
drummer for Shellac, one of

my all time favorite bands.

And sadly, Shellac came to an end
last year when guitarist Steve

Albini abruptly passed away.

Todd mentions that during our
discussion, which is why I'm mentioning

it here, but I didn't ask him on
the show to talk about Shellac.

I asked him to be on the podcast to talk
about his work as a drumming instructor.

For the last 11 years, todd has
taught people from ages six to 60

and above how to play the drums.

Now, our conversation certainly touches
on money and having a career outside

the mainstream, but what I really
wanted to explore is how teaching,

educating, instructing, whatever you
want to call it, has a bigger impact

than just trading your time for money.

There's that old saying about giving
someone a fish versus teaching someone

to fish, but, as you'll hear in this
conversation, the value exchanged between

Todd and his students is a two way street.

In other words, the benefits to
both student and instructor extend

beyond the time they spend together.

This conversation was everything I
hoped it would be and more, and I'm

very happy to share it with you.

So thanks for being here, and
please enjoy this conversation with

drumming instructor Todd Trainer.

Todd Trainer: Timothy,

Timothy Iseler: Todd, how are you?

Todd Trainer: I'm excellent.

How are you?

Timothy Iseler: I'm very well, thank you.

Todd Trainer: Super.

Timothy Iseler: So, Todd, normally
on the show I talk to people with

weird jobs about personal finance
and living with money, but we're

gonna do something different today.

I know you, many people will know you
as the drummer from Shellac, but today

I wanted to talk to you about teaching.

Can you please share a little bit
about your drumming instruction

business and how you work with people?

Todd Trainer: Absolutely.

The drumming instructions started a
long time ago when I lost a, a job

that I had for a very long time.

I had the same job, I worked in a
warehouse for 20 years and when that

went away I was kinda scrambling, looking
for bits and pieces, things to do.

And inevitably I had a friend in, in
Minneapolis here that was fantastic

drummer who had an amazing studio
with, you know, a million drum

kits and, and wonderful equipment.

And he would always pester me to say,
I want to take a lesson from you.

I want to take a lesson from you.

And, and my response was,
I'm not a teacher and I have

nothing to, to show you.

And he was a fantastic drummer, so
it was this constant back and forth.

He was a very persistent young man.

And at one point in time I said,
look, what could I honestly show

you that you don't already know?

And he said, well, you have the one thing
that, that, that most drummers don't have.

You have the ability to rock.

And I thought it was an
interesting and funny observation.

So anyhow, one day he approached me and
said, look, I've got six drummers that

would love to take a lesson from you.

Everybody will show up at my space.

I can organize it for you.

So essentially I went over to his
house, I sort of reluctantly agreed

to go over there and do this.

And, um, I met six different people
who were all drummers of varying

different levels of ability.

And, um, I gave them all lessons and, um,
I found it to be thoroughly enjoyable.

And I realized at that point I
probably had a little more to share

than I was giving myself credit for.

But I still, it, it didn't occur
to me to do it as a career.

So I bounced around, had some
several unfulfilling job experiences.

And, uh, one of the places that I was
working for went out of business and I

happened to be just, uh, I was literally
filling out applications at random

places, anything with a help wanted sign.

And, uh, I'd met a friend for coffee
and he asked what I was up to.

I said, I'm job hunting, without a
real, without a degree, essentially.

And he said, have you ever
thought about teaching lessons?

And I said, I taught lessons.

You know, I taught like a half a
dozen people lessons a, a while back.

And it was really rewarding
and really fulfilling.

he's like, well, why
don't you try that again?

I had never, like I said, I had never
put effort into it the first time.

So the second time I thought, well.

I would rather put effort into something
that I'm fairly capable of, that

I'm knowledgeable of, and passionate
about, and something I thoroughly

enjoy than, you know, filling out
random applications at random places.

So that's when I first put effort into it.

And this, it turns out to be, uh,
about 11 years ago when I started this.

And so originally I just, it was
really , dare I say old school DIY,

but that's exactly what it was, where
I made flyers and, um, I went around

to coffee shops and record stores and
music shops and just posted a little

flyer of myself saying lessons available.

And I offered to come to people's,
um, rehearsal spaces or houses.

And so I bounced around like that
for quite some time, which is very

inefficient and, not very lucrative
because, you know, a 30 minute lesson

was taking me an hour at a minimum
to get there and to get back, and a

very time consuming, very inefficient.

And finally, I met, um, someone wanted
to take a lesson from me who owned

and operated a rehearsal space for
bands here in the Twin Cities, and he

just happened to be a drummer as well.

And so I went to his space,
gave him a drum lesson.

And when I was leaving, a
gentleman approached me who

was starting a music school.

And he, he, he was like,
what are you doing here?

And I said, well, I'm giving the
founder here, a, a drum lesson.

He's like, you do drum lessons?

And he said, I'm trying to, I'm, I'm
in the, in the process of starting

a music school, I'd love to have you
on as the primary drum instructor.

And so I did.

I kind of continued to offer my lessons
to go essentially until he got this

school sort of established and set up.

And, um, I started there.

Unfortunately, it wasn't, wasn't very well
organized and they weren't successful.

But in the, the year or so that they were
in, in business, operating, I was able

to establish a pretty decent clientele.

And so because they were in this res
rehearsal space area, and I then I had

created a, I had created a relationship
with the owner and founder who was

taking lessons from me, I just started
to rent a room from him, myself.

And my lovely wife who's a graphic
designer and far more technically

competent and capable than I am,
she helped me create a website, a

scheduling system, and a payment system.

And those three things I feel
like were absolutely critical

to my success and still are.

I think the advantage that I have on
nearly everyone in the Twin Cities at

least, is that I have a really wonderful
website with a really simple scheduling

system and a very easy payment system.

And now I've been doing that for
on my own, for about 10 years.

And I've been in a few different spaces.

There's a, a wonderful guitar shop in
town called Twin Town Guitars , and

they do, they offer lessons as
well and all sorts of instruments.

And they brought me on board
as a drum instructor there.

And I was there for a couple years when
a gentleman in town took over, uh, an

existing drum shop that was called, or is
now called Twin Cities Drum Collective.

And he, he called me over and offered
me a position there, sort of a similar

thing that the guitar shop did.

And, um, I moved over to Twin Cities Drum
Collective because, you know, working out

of a drum shop had a lot of advantages , a
new customer pool, right, made it easier

for me to not try to promote myself.

And, um, it was a very
drum centric situation.

I had a beautiful room there and I'm
still doing lessons at Twin Cities

drum collective as we speak, actually.

So that's kind of my very long story,
Timothy of, of like, it was more like,

it was almost by default and it was
because I needed to earn a living and

I was, I was basically willing to do,
you know, anything to do so, legally.

And the drum thing is, it
worked out really well for me.

It's really satisfying,
it's really fulfilling.

I've got students of, um, all ages.

I, I start at six, but I have students
from six to 60, maybe 70 years old.

I have the students of all levels of
ability from beginners to intermediate

and some advanced students as well.

So it's a very wide variety.

I have a lot of, , female students.

I have a lot of young um,
kids, you know, boys and girls.

So it's a wonderful variety of, of
students of all ages and levels of

ability, and it, it keeps drumming
exciting and, and fresh for me.

I'm always trying to work on
new lessons and exercises.

Um, so that's, that's the very
long story of, of what I'm doing.

Timothy Iseler: If you had to put
a a name to it or a description to

it, what do you think is the thing
about teaching that's fulfilling that

originally you thought would not be there?

Because you said you, you originally,
you were like, I don't want to do this.

And then once you did it, you realized it
was actually a really fulfilling practice.

Todd Trainer: Well, and again, the, the
gentleman that approached me to do this

originally was a fantastic drummer.

You know, I used to tell
him You could play circles

around me with your left hand.

And there's a lot of these
people in the world these days.

There's, there's these incredibly
technical musicians, not just

drummers, but musicians that
can play unbelievably fast.

and in, in the drumming world right
now, that seems to be a popular

thing is playing really, really fast.

It's impressive, just like it, it
would be to watch somebody run fast.

And just like watching somebody run
fast, it gets really, that wears

thin relatively quickly for me.

So, and my focus has always been
on creativity and being unique and,

and distinct as a drummer, which
rarely ever involves being fast.

So the, like, it wasn't incredibly
fulfilling for me to give

an advanced drummer lessons.

It did make me think about...

when I have an advanced student come in,
I, I have a, a a, I've made this promise

to myself, essentially, is I don't ever
wanna look for somebody's weakness.

Timothy Iseler: Hmm.

Todd Trainer: But I just, I will look
for areas of improvement, if you will,

which is probably a flattering way to
say I'm looking for somebody's weakness.

Right.

But, um, what I discovered when I
started working for this music school,

it had never occurred to me that it
might be dealing with like a, a, a kid.

And the first student that walked into
the drum school was four years old.

He was a 4-year-old kid and
I had no idea what to do.

I was completely lost.

To make it even more challenging,
the parents, I said, is he

right-handed or left-handed?

And the parents said, we don't know, we
were hoping you could figure that out.

Timothy Iseler: Wow.

Todd Trainer: So the, the first student
I'm presented with there is this

enormous challenge that I would never
be prepared for, which was great for me.

It was, you know, it was, again, part
of the success of my business was going,

wow, what am I gonna do with this kid?

So, and it, his parents kind of put me on
the spot with we were hoping you'd figure

out if he's right-handed or left-handed.

And I said, I'm not gonna figure it out.

He is gonna figure it out, and here's how
he's gonna figure it out in this room.

And I can't say about, you know, writing
or, or anything like that, or if he

goes on to to, you know, do anything
athletically, but what I will do is

I'm gonna set up a drum set for him
as a right-handed player, and then

halfway through the lesson, I'm gonna
set that up for a left-handed player.

And, um, so they said, well, great.

We will know by the end of the lesson
if he's right-handed or left-handed.

I said, no, no, I wouldn't say that.

I would say when he finally establishes
a, a preference is, is what.

So I'll do it as long as it
takes until he, you know, he

says, this is what I like.

And you know, I had a, this, I had
this student for eight years, years

and it, and, you know, I still
am in touch with his, his family.

I ended up being kind of a mentor
for this kid and creating a really

excellent relationship with his family.

And I, you know, often do with a lot of,
a lot of my students or, or the parents

of a student, because I've had a lot
of students for a long time, that is to

say years and years and years and years.

And, um, you know, at, I reached the
eight year mark with this kid and I said

to his father, Hey, look, your son knows
everything about drumming that I know.

I've taught him every single
thing I know about the drums.

And, um, and he's like, well,
what are you telling me?

And I said, you know, inevitably
everything comes to an end.

And at this point I'd feel
guilty that I'm just...

I don't have a lot of
information to offer your kid.

I mean, I can go in
there and play with him.

It's fun.

I love to see him, but I really
don't have any new content for him.

And I'd feel guilty taking your
money as as enjoyable as it is.

And he looked me in the eye, said, Todd,
you're the most interesting guy we know.

It's worth it for me to pay
you to hang out with my kid

for a half an hour once a week.

So we're just gonna continue
taking lessons with you.

So, now I don't have him anymore
as a student just because where I'm

located is, it's the exact opposite
end of the city is where I, I met him.

So, I ended up going from far west to
far east, so it doesn't really work out

for us anymore, but he'll still come
by once or twice a year and hang out.

And I, I realize this is a really
long answer, Timothy, this,

that's why, this was why I was
afraid of doing an interview.

So what's the fulfillment?

The fulfillment is teaching...

again, now I've bumped up my age thing
where I have a sort of a starting at six

because I've struggled with four year olds
and five year olds and, and realize that,

um, I can only get so far with them before
I kind of reach a, a bit of a, a block.

But the satisfying thing to me, no matter
what the age is, is teaching somebody

that first drumbeat that, and it's,
it could be a, a, a 6-year-old that's,

that's just been pounding on tables and,
and being a nuisance to the folks to,

uh, a 60-year-old that, and I, I have
one of these right now who's always

wanted to play the drums, always wanted
to play the drums, and folks wanted

them to play the piano and, you know,
violin or something, and they just never

had an interest in the piano or violin.

And so we get started on the
drum kit and it's that thing

they've always wanted to do.

And there's this instant
gratification and instant sat

satisfaction playing a drum kit.

And you know, I go through this with
every student that walks through the door.

I say, Hey, look, these are
my qualifications, right?

I've been playing for 50 years now.

Played in 39 different countries
and made over 30 records, and, um,

I've been teaching for 11 years.

Those are my qualifications.

And what, as a, an instructor, my goal
is to get you to play drums like yourself

and to make interesting and, and unique
choices and to be creative as possible.

So I've got a lot of little
phrases that I'll use.

You know, one of my favorites is
Your Imagination knows No Limitation.

And, um, so whatever I'm showing anybody,
I'm showing them and encouraging them

to take this bit of information and find
their way to apply it, find a way to

apply it that's unique to themselves or,
or in a, in a fashion that allows them

to feel some sense of ownership or that
they've put their little signature on this

thing, no matter how classic the beat is.

I'm like, we just need to find one little
way to put a unique spin on it to make

it your own little signature thing.

So I get a tremendous amount of
satisfaction when a, a kid or adult

comes in and, and says, Hey, look, this
is what I'm doing with this information

I gave him at the previous lesson.

And it's, it's, it really is satisfying.

I really do enjoy it.

It's, continues to keep me challenged.

It keeps me playing and improving
and, um, it's incredibly rewarding

from that perspective of just, I'm
sharing this thing with, with kids that

have always wanted to do it, adults
that have always wanted to do it.

And I also tell them, you know,
the drums, probably the first I'd

say it's safe to assume the first
instrument on, on the planet.

I also feel like it's the most instantly
gratifying instrument, um, because we

take the stick, we hit the thing, and
it makes the sound, and that's it.

You know, we don't have to find
some, we don't have to find

positions for our fingers, or we
d we don't need to know notes.

When, when people do come in, I do
a little introduction to the drum

kit and then I compare it to every
other instrument in the orchestra.

I say, if you, if you look at the, if
you look at the string section or wind

section or the percussion, any one of
these things in an orchestra setting

is set, is set up the way it is set up.

Right?

The piano is the piano and that's,
it needs to be set up like a

piano and tuned like a piano.

And same with any other instrument.

You can imagine.

All of the, all of the horns, all
of the wind section, all of the

string section, they're set up very
specifically and particularly, and

they need to be in a specific tuning.

I said here you have
the drums, a drum kit.

You can have a very minimal setup.

You can have a, a two or three piece kit.

You can have a 20 piece kit if you want.

You can have a couple of cymbals.

You can have, you know, 20
cymbals if you want, and you can

set them up however you choose.

You can, you know, you can set them up
low and flat or high at a big angle.

You can, you can tune a drum
kit, however you choose.

There's just a tremendous amount of
freedom in in the, the instrument itself

and how we set it up, how we tune it,
how we approach it, how we play it.

A magnificent instrument.

Timothy Iseler: Yeah.

Todd Trainer: Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Timothy Iseler: men, you mentioned a
few times creativity and uniqueness,

and that's sort of your goal.

Do you notice a difference
when someone like a, a kid

is coming in versus an adult.

'cause it seems to me that maybe an
adult has learned lessons that need

unlearning, whereas a kid is maybe coming
at it a little more fresh and maybe they

don't have the, uh, the preconceived
ideas of what the right thing is.

Todd Trainer: Excellent
observation, timothy.

Kids are wonderful,
children are wonderful.

This lack of knowledge and lack of
perspective and experience is, it's

a really wonderful thing that I, I
don't wanna say we ruin it as, as

we, as we continue to teach children.

'cause it's not necessarily that
we ruin it, but being young and

innocent and naive to an extent is,
is a gift that I, I recognize now.

I recognize it really well.

I don't have my own children, so
I see it in my students, and I can

give you a really quick analogy.

Something that almost every kid does
that I feel like is, of course, it's,

it's such an obvious thing that no
adult would ever question it in ever.

And every kid that ever comes
in has the same approach.

And you know what a drum kit looks like.

We've all seen musicians play a
drum kit, and we all see drummers

that set up like this, right?

And so most right-handed drummers would
be playing this high hat instrument,

the cymbals over here with their
right hand and playing this snare

drum with their left hand, two of
the major components in a drum set.

And so we see drummers playing like this.

Every kid that walks in and I say, all
right, we're gonna play the high hat in

this drumbeat and the snare drum with
this drumbeat, every kid takes the left

hand to the high hat like this because
it's logical, because it's, um, it makes

sense from an ergonomical standpoint
and a logistical standpoint standpoint.

That's the instrument that's
close to my left hand.

So every kid wants to play like that.

And inevitably I have this conversation
like, Hey, how most right-handed

drummers would play like this?

I developed a thing really early on
in my drumming that I didn't, I felt

this very unnatural, and I say, look,
you wouldn't tie your shoes this way.

You wouldn't eat dinner this way, and you
wouldn't drive an automobile this way.

You wouldn't ride your bicycle this way.

Why would we approach this instrument
that requires so much dexterity from this

very unnatural and uncomfortable position?

And you know, there are logical reasons
for it, but I figured out a way to

move this cymbal in front of me.

So even though I'm crossed up to an,
to an extent, I'm never in my own way,

there's a tr I always keep my hands open.

This is considered just open
and I'm always open like this.

I'm never crossed like this, so I'm
never really getting in my own way.

And I tell people how I did that and.

I make that an available thing really
early on so people understand that.

And, um, I have a, a lot of students
have kind of adopted that style.

There's a tremendous amount
of freedom playing that way.

Timothy Iseler: Yeah.

It also seems to me that the freedom in
drumming is that you can, as a challenge

for yourself, you can switch which hand
is which, you know, so if you're keeping,

if you're doing eighth notes on your
right hand, you can, as a mental practice

switch and do the eighth notes on the
left hand and, and switch back and forth,

you know, which, of course, there's no
analog really to a guitar or a piano.

I guess you could reverse your hands on a
piano, but seems fantastically hard to do.

Todd Trainer: It's fantastically
hard to do on a drum set as well.

And there's the, you know, again,
one of the wonderful things about

learning young is, the ability to,
um, because they're gonna have those

kids that'll have those thoughts.

They haven't learned anything.

So playing this with their left
hand is no more challenging than

playing it with their right hand.

So I'm very big on that early on
because I'm very envious of these kids.

My students ultimately end up
being incredibly, um, ambidextrous

is, is kind of one of my goals.

Um, uh, in a sense it's by default of
the instrument itself, but, um, you

know, getting a kid to do this versus
an adult to do it much easier to get

the kid to do it in all, in reality.

And, and in, in some cases, the
more drummers played and set in

their, you know, habits or ways or
style, it, it is harder to, to get

out, you know, get away from that.

Timothy Iseler: Has seeing all of those
young kids come in and start the high hat

with the left hand, has that, have you
challenged yourself to do that, or is it

you're, you're too deep in your groove?

Todd Trainer: Well, I do, I play a lot
of simple stuff and, um, I do some fun

little exercises after students have
learned like the early drum fills and

the early drum, um, drum beats and drum
fills , you know, early on in my teaching,

which I continue to try to improve it,
I'm constantly trying to improve the

experience and the efficiency of it.

And I used to do this thing
where I'd be like, all right,

do you remember this beat?

And I would play an early drum
beat and have them play it back.

And then, do you remember this one?

Back and forth a few times.

And then how about these
drum fills back and forth?

And now I do something called,
um, follow the Leader, which,

you know, kids love games.

So if you can make a game,
I do it with adults as well.

Um, most everyone really
actually enjoys this exercise.

And we just, we end up playing the
same beat together as a foundation.

And then I continue to make
it more complex, complex,

complex, complex, complex.

And then I have them follow
me, the following measure,

they're just following me.

And then I just start to add
the drum fills, drum fills, drum

fills, drum fills, drum fills.

And when I'm doing that exercise,
Timothy, I, I try to play with my left

hand in situations like that, as a, it's
a way for me to improve as well, and

then challenge myself as well, without
giving anybody a lesser experience

in, in the educational department.

But kids are magnificent.

Uh, there's, I, I don't mean this
in a derogatory fashion, but there

is a bit of a monkey see, monkey do
thing that happens with kids and, um.

I read the, I read this book, the Suzuki
method about the famous musical instructor

in Japan, and his teaching method.

And, you know, that was really,
it was developed by him giving

an adult violin lessons in this
adult's home who had a newborn kid.

Timothy Iseler: Mm.

Todd Trainer: And he realized after
several lessons where they were working

on the same composition, they were
working on some classical composition,

and the baby always sat there next to
the adult and he realized, and the baby

was one really ridiculously young, and
he realized the baby was recognizing

the movements within this song.

And, you know, he, he had a bit
of an epiphany he thought, wow.

These, the kids are
following this by ear, right?

The and, and it's, it's a bit of a
monkey see, it's, it's something we

hear, it's a, it's a visual thing.

It's an audio visual thing, really.

And fascinating book.

He feels like he feels like one of the
biggest mistakes that humans have made

is waiting to teach kids until they're
five years old or something, you know,

five or six years old, because that
those early years kids are picking up

languages, they're picking up everything.

They're much like a, I'm a big fan of dogs
and having owned dogs my whole life, I

realized they're very observant creatures.

They, I, I don't think we give them
anywhere near the amount of credit

they deserve, like kids here as
well, where they're watching, they're

watching what you do and, and they're
able to reproduce it and often

oftentimes, or attempt to, they want to.

Timothy Iseler: When you
came up with that, that game

Todd Trainer: to follow the leader thing.

Yeah.

Timothy Iseler: the Leader.

Were you,

Todd Trainer: I would
play left-handed at that.

Timothy Iseler: were you, were you
thinking of the Suzuki book at that

time, or was that just something
that intuitively made sense to you?

Todd Trainer: No, I wasn't.

Uh, I felt like that book was, it
was a wonderful thing for me to read

and gave me interesting perspectives.

But no, that's just the, I that was
more of an efficiency decision of like,

wow, this back and forth thing is taking
the first 10 minutes of a lesson to go

through these things they already know.

'Cause I, I do it with with, um, material
that's already been shared with them.

So, I decided, wow, there's gotta
be a more efficient way to do this.

Instead of making it a 10 minute exercise,
now it's a five minute exercise and we

get through everything and people, you
know, it also, it's training you to play

along in time with another musician,
which is a, a skill we want to develop.

It's a listening exercise.

So it, it becomes a little more
when we, than just going back

and forth and back and forth, you
know, now we're playing in tempo.

Now they have to observe,
they have to listen.

So it's a little more challenging
an exercise, but it's, it's far

more efficient and people love it.

It's a, it's a fun one.

Timothy Iseler: It seems to me it
must tap into something really deep

too because you're, you're sharing
instruction completely non-verbally.

Like you're both playing together,
and then they see a new thing and they

have to fit the new thing in without
you giving any verbal instruction.

Todd Trainer: Absolutely.

I, I mean, I've met some, I've met
some kids who've been challenged.

They have learning disabilities and, um.

I, in no way do I feel qualified
to deal with a, a, a student like

this, um, but our educational
system isn't either, unless it's a

special, special education system.

So I've had kids that like,
they're stuck in between, right?

Where they don't do well in a normal
classroom, but they also don't do, nor

they don't do well in like a special
education situ situation either.

They're just like, I hate to say
misfits 'cause in a sense they are,

in a sense I can read, I can relate
to being a misfit in a different

situation where I was a misfit in my
normal, my normal public school setting.

I've always felt like a misfit as, as I
got older, I felt like a misfit, because

of my passion for music and drumming
and, and wanting to be an individual.

I've taught kids, like in this situation
where I realized, wow, I can't, they're

not gonna give me anything verbally back.

And I recognize it quickly now
'cause I'm like, uhoh, this

kid isn't gonna talk to me.

And I, I understand they're
intimidated now we're, they're

sitting behind this thing that they've
never seen before in some cases.

So I've been very successful
in just holding up a stick.

And then I'll exaggerate with
my lower body in the same

fashion that we're gonna do.

We're gonna do both rights.

Now we're gonna do both hands,
both rights, both hands,

both without even talking.

And I can get kids to be, you know, in,
in, in some cases, a matter of minutes.

It's, it's crazy how observant
some of these kids are, you know?

And I, I, I've witnessed it.

I've, I've.

I feel fortunate to have
been in that situation.

A lot of times their parents are
astonished, you know, they're like, wow.

And, um, you know, I can only get so
far with that too because you know,

sometimes I have to pull people aside
and say, Hey, look, um, I'm willing,

I'll do this as long as you want,
want to do it, but it's kind of an,

it's becoming an expensive sort of
therapy or something at some point.

Because I'm really not qualified
to do anything but show a few

drum beats and drum fills.

I'm really not qualified to
like help your disabled kid.

But, uh, if you want to keep coming
and if you think they're getting

anything out of it, if they're
enjoying it, let's keep going.

But if I start to feel the least bit
conscious about just taking money

from anybody, no matter how much money
they have, no matter what, I've had

this conversation with multiple people
where, hey look, you know, this is all

I have, this is all I can do for you.

And if you feel like it isn't enough,
then you know, it's fine that, that

this is the end of the road for us.

Don't, don't feel obligated to support me.

You know, I have a few of those.

I have a few of those.

Like man, it must be hard, you know, as
you know, I've lost, i've experienced

a couple of major, major losses in the
last couple of years, which changed my

entire life, and I have some people that
feel, they feel sorry for me and um, I.

I tell everybody, feel sorry for me.

Do you have any idea how lucky I am?

How lucky I've been able to do, to do
this thing, these things I've done,

to be in this situation with this guy
in a musical fashion for 33 years and

be friends for 42 years or something.

Like, I don't, I'm not
looking for sympathy there.

I feel incredibly fortunate and
incredibly lucky for my past.

It went away.

I miss it tremendously
and it makes me miss it.

But I don't want any, you know, I don't
want any handouts because of this.

We all get dealt these hands in, in,
in life and so I don't wanna, um...

i.

I don't, I do get people that
are like well off and wanna

just, Hey, I'm helping you out.

And I would say that I'm not,
that's not why I do this.

I'm not here to have you
help me out, you know?

And originally, I'll be honest, Timothy, I
started the drum lessons because I needed

the income and now it's like this: there's
this, you hear this occasionally, like, I

didn't rescue the dog, the dog rescued me.

And you know, the, the drum lessons
aren't quite, that isn't really the

case, but there's this, a bit of it
is like the drum lessons really give

me a tremendous amount of fulfillment.

In some cases, I'm quite sure more than
the student gets, you know, I really am.

Timothy Iseler: that seems like
a lovely place to wrap up, Todd,

Todd Trainer: Yeah.

Timothy Iseler: if people wanna
learn more or book some time

with you, where should they go?

Todd Trainer: Well, I have a
website, which is simply Todd

Trainer drumming instruction.

And I have, I'm there are major, um,
my life is in the midst of some real

major changes at the moment, Timothy.

So I'm only gonna be doing drum
lessons through the end of this year.

I am available online
as well as in person.

I'm gonna take some time off.

As you can see, I'm, I'm over my head
in boxing here and I'm in the process

of preparing a move out of the country.

Timothy Iseler: Ah,

Todd Trainer: Yeah.

My wife is, um, Dutch.

She's from the Netherlands.

And so we're gonna go and
live in, in, uh, Amsterdam.

Timothy Iseler: Do you intend
to continue once you relocate?

Todd Trainer: I would like
to, um, that's the plan.

However, you know, there's a
pretty substantial time change.

Timothy Iseler: Of course.

Todd Trainer: Yeah, so, and I
don't wanna work real late anymore.

So I, I have some students that
we're gonna make it work somehow.

Well, I'll accommodate
them early in the morning.

I have a few people that wanna, I have a
couple kids that wanna do lessons before

school, and I have a couple of adults as
well that wanna do lessons before work.

So, you know, I, I was absolutely
shocked to find out people were willing

to do stuff at seven in the morning,
eight in the morning, but they are.

Or at least drum lessons.

So, um, yeah, I'm gonna do that.

It may take me a while to
get established over there.

I might try to get established
with some in a school, a little

more professional environment.

If not, I, I'm assuming I'll end up
renting my own space and then have to

reestablish a new clientele and then get
some online presence going again as well.

Timothy Iseler: Yeah.

Well, thank you so much, Todd.

I really appreciate your time.

Todd Trainer: Yeah, my pleasure.

So nothing about finances.

Timothy Iseler: Well, I mean, I'd be happy
to talk to you about anything at all.

Todd Trainer: Well, I think
this was great, Timothy.

I didn't really know what your angle would
be or why you were, would be interested in

speaking to me at all, but this is great.

Timothy Iseler: Well, if you don't mind
just continuing for another minute that

I have this idea and I, I, it's not like
I kind of have an outline of an idea that

I wanna explore by talking to people who
are teaching/ educating in different ways.

And that's, in terms of a vocation,
it certainly is a way to make money,

but it also seems to me that there's
a much greater potential to deliver

more value than what a person is
paying for, if that makes sense.

Like if you teach someone to play the
drums, whether or not they ever are a

professional drummer, the possibilities
in their lives have just opened up.

You know, like things, the way they hear
music, the way they see music, the things

they can do with their time change quite
a bit and, and so that's the angle I

wanted is how does this expand beyond
just, I'm with you for these 30 minutes.

Todd Trainer: Well, I can, well,
I'll tell you this right now.

It does wonders for your self-confidence.

Uh, it's, there's a lot of
things you don't see, right?

Besides being a decent tremor, it's, uh,
becomes a self-worth self-confidence.

I have a couple of students
that are there, literally,

I have this Australian guy.

I've had him since.

Um.

As soon as I opened up my lessons to
the online, you know, I went, I only

did in-person lessons until the pandemic
hit, and then I decided, hey, look,

I need to, I need to scramble here
and made lessons available online.

I got a bunch of interesting students
there, and one happens to be an Australian

guy who wrote me a really wonderful
letter saying he had Parkinson's.

That he had read or was told by
his medical team that drumming

would be this wonderful thing for
rehabilitation, um, and maintaining

dexterity in all of his limbs.

So, I've had, I have him weekly
now and have for five years and,

um, you know, it's a form of
rehabilitation for him, but it is now.

It's this fun thing where
he is having a blast.

He's a great drummer and it's
giving him confidence he never had.

And he, he is a massive music fan.

Now.

He can play along with his favorite
records and, and we work on

keeping the dexterity in, in all
four limbs as much as possible.

Challenging 'em there.

And, um, I have a couple of students who
are actually there for rehabilitation

purposes and now they just, they just
love drumming and, and they love music.

And so they don't even see it as like some
form of physical therapy, if you will.

It's just, it's fun.

So we get confidence.

I get a lot of misfits in school, like I
was, they don't fit in with the academic

crowd, they don't fit in with that
athletic crowd , they're a bit of a kind

of outcast and uh, the drumming thing
gives them this thing, like, I can do this

thing that nobody else can do, you know?

Yeah.

There's a, there's 50 kids on the
football team and, you know, 50 kids

doing debate or something, but yeah,
I'm, there's only a couple drummers

in the school and I'm the best one.

You know, it was a wonderful thing.

Timothy Iseler: Yeah.

Todd Trainer: Yeah.

Timothy Iseler: Do you mind, do
you have another minute or two?

Todd Trainer: Sure.

Timothy Iseler: Was there someone like
that for you when you were young, when

you were first starting drumming, who
was either like literally showing you

how to play or was like, Hey, welcome
to the, the welcome to the music scene.

Todd Trainer: Yeah, it was,
it was really my brother.

Timothy Iseler: Ah.

Todd Trainer: Yeah, my older brother
and, and sister as well, were both big

music fans, so it was, he was into the
rock that people would be at that time.

So the Beatles and The Stones and
Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin.

And then my sister was into like
Curtis Mayfield and Sly and the Family

Stone, more Funk, r and b stuff.

So I had, and then my parents
were into rock and roll.

My dad was a big Chuck Berry fan.

My mom's a big Johnny Cash fan.

So I really quality music and a relatively
decent variety of music growing up.

And, but my brother got a
drum kit when I was just 11.

And so, you know, having a drum
kit in the house to me was like,

oh, you know, I, I, I probably
played that thing more than he did.

I'm sure that I did.

And then when he went off to
school, I bought it from him.

I had a hundred bucks from the bank that
my grandfather had given me when he, he

left us and uh, my brother got that a
hundred bucks from me and I was happy

as hell because I had his drum kit.

Timothy Iseler: Uh huh,

Todd Trainer: Yep.

Timothy Iseler: fantastic.

Well, thanks again.

I

Todd Trainer: Alright,
Timothy, nice to see you.

How's your, how's your
new career going for you?

Timothy Iseler: It's going well.

It is going well now.

I switched careers six months before
the pandemic and that was not an awesome

experience for me because I was...

it, it would be conventionally
foolish, but for me, it seemed like

the only thing to do where I wanted,
I really wanted to work for myself.

Um, I had worked in recording studios
and touring with bands for the

previous 18 years, and so the idea
of having a straight job with a boss

was not really interesting to me.

So I changed careers and launched a
business at the same time, and then

six months later, everyone I thought
I was gonna work with had no job, you

know, for a year or a year and a half.

Todd Trainer: Right.

Timothy Iseler: so that was,

Todd Trainer: included it.

Yeah.

Timothy Iseler: yeah.

Todd Trainer: Right.

Timothy Iseler: Like most people I knew
were like, how are we even gonna get by?

And then the people who did have some
money, they were like, oh, I'm holding

onto this money because who knows?

Who knows what's going on?

So I thought I would be helping
all these people make decisions

and invest and all that stuff.

And it was, uh, 2020 and 21
were really brutal for me.

But since then, it's grown every year.

Every year is better than the last year.

And I feel really fortunate that I stuck
with it because I have done things my

own way, which was really important to
me, and I've been able to help people

who otherwise would feel excluded from
financial services just because, you know,

you walk into whatever, you walk into
your bank and try to talk to somebody

about investing and it's like they
don't know what to do with someone who

doesn't know what their income is gonna
be this month or this year or whatever.

And like.

Was my whole life for so long was
that kind of up and down income.

And so I feel like I'm able to
help the people I want to help.

I feel like I'm able to do it the
way I want to do it, and it just,

the nature of things, you stick with
it for a while and it grows and it

grows, and at some point it's like,
oh, okay, this is this going all right.

Todd Trainer: Awesome.

Now, the pandemic, I felt so guilty there
'cause once I threw my business online, I

mean, my schedule filled up immediately.

'cause I was fortunate to get
students from around the world.

So it ended up being a really positive
thing for my business, which I retain

a lot of those students till this day.

But, um, you know, I certainly in the,
I was in the rare, rare camp there.

Well, I'd be curious to chat with
you a little bit about finances.

I, maybe we can have a
little phone call one day.

Timothy Iseler: Yeah.

I'd be happy to do that.

You know, the way I think about it, like
I, I'd be super happy to work with you,

but if there's a question and I can just
answer it off the top of my head, you

know, if it's just something I know that
I can give you, then I'm happy to do that.

But if it's, you know, if we have to
dig a little deeper, then we could

talk about, you know, working together.

Todd Trainer: It might just be a
couple basic questions that I don't,

you know, I, I don't even, I can't
even say I have them right now, but

Timothy Iseler: Yeah,

Todd Trainer: I, I've got a
friend who's a financial advisor.

But in any case, Timothy, congratulations
on your, your career and, uh, it's

been nice to chat and, and to see you.

Timothy Iseler: Thank you so much,

Todd Trainer: Yeah.

Enjoy the rest of your day there.

Timothy Iseler: You too.

Todd Trainer: Alright, bye bye.

Timothy Iseler: A big thanks to
Todd for talking with me today.

As he mentioned at one point during
our conversation, he was reluctant to

be interviewed and so I'm extremely
grateful that he agreed to be on the show.

The conversation went everywhere
I hoped it would and then some.

And I think it's a great way to
end the year on a positive note.

If you would like to reach out to
Todd for virtual lessons after he

relocates in the new year, please visit
toddtrainerdrumminginstruction.com.

And I will also link to
that in the show notes.

Okay, that's it for today.

I will be back next week to talk about
why financial forecasts are total

bullshit, despite the proliferation of
them at the start of every single year.

That's next week, but first.

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