The Thing We Never Talk About

Timothy Iseler: I think we
can start to wind down here.

I end every show with a
question from my guest.

Yours very much relates to what we've
been talking about . Your question was

how do we approach online education.

Welcome to The Thing We Never Talk About.

My name is Tim Iseler.

I'm a certified financial planner and I
run my own independent financial advisory

business helping musicians, artists,
and other people with weird jobs make

smarter decisions with their money.

You can learn more Iselerfinancial.com.

If you have a question about money
or personal finance or mindset or

whatever, please send it to me by
visiting Iselerfinancial.com/podcast

and I will answer it in a future episode.

And if you enjoy this podcast,
please share it with a friend.

After you've done that, please go
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show wherever you listen to podcasts.

Today I am speaking with touring front
of house audio engineer Scott Adamson.

I've known Scott for around 25 years at
this point, starting when he was co-owner

of Semphore recording studio in Chicago.

Like a lot of other people in that
scene, scott was a musician who

also made records and also mixed
other people's bands on tour.

But, as we'll hear in this conversation,
at some point the opportunities

coming to Scott got much bigger and
he moved from mixing indie bands

in clubs to really big bands in
arenas, including artists like St.

Vincent, Passion Pit, and Slater Kinney.

Around 10 years ago, Scott also
founded The Production Academy, an

online education platform for live
sound and production professionals.

You can learn more at
theproductionacademy.com.

We talk about all aspects of his
career from his early days touring

in vans, through working with high
profile artists in big venues,

as well as the opportunities and
challenges of building an online

educational platform from scratch.

So thank you for being here, and I
hope you enjoyed this conversation

with touring front of house
audio engineer Scott Adamson.

Scott Adamson: Hey Tim.

Timothy Iseler: Hey, Scott.

How are you?

Scott Adamson: I'm doing well.

How are you?

I am realizing that I'm extremely backlit.

I also have this amazing mic stand
here since I don't have a mic stand.

Timothy Iseler: stand?

Scott Adamson: It is,

Timothy Iseler: Yeah.

Scott Adamson: So let, yeah, Lemme
know if the audio sounds right.

I think I got the gain right
on the mic and all that, but

Timothy Iseler: Do you have like a fan
on in the room or something like that?

An air filter or something?

Scott Adamson: I turned the heat off.

It should be going off in a second.

There,

Timothy Iseler: Oh

Scott Adamson: So it should be better.

Timothy Iseler: Huge difference.

Scott Adamson: Yeah,
that should stay off now.

So

Timothy Iseler: Cool.

You ready to get into it?

Scott Adamson: Sounds good.

Timothy Iseler: So Scott, what do
you tell people do for a living?

Scott Adamson: It varies.

I mean, if someone in the music
industry asked me, I say front of

house audio engineer or touring front
of house audio engineer, I guess.

But I, I, my answer's been a
little different for people that

don't really know the touring
industry or music industry.

Cause if I just say I'm a sound
engineer, I think they think that

I like set up speaker systems
and stuff, which I don't do.

So I kind of like ask, I kind of
like say that I, I work directly for

artists who use me to translate what
they're doing on stage to the audience.

Timothy Iseler: Hmm.

Scott Adamson: 'Cause it is a very
creative job, the, my particular gig.

And there are a lot of creative
decisions that go into it.

And that's, it's really what I see it
as, as a collaboration with the artist

to help the audience enjoy, enjoy
their, the sound of the performance.

So, so that's kind of what
I've been telling people that

don't, that aren't really in,
in the, in the biz, so to speak.

So...

Timothy Iseler: yeah.

When was the last time you
had a non-music industry job?

Scott Adamson: Oh,
that's a great question.

Um, I remember once I applied for
like a retail job in like my early

twenties to United Colors of Benetton.

'cause I was, I had a girlfriend
that was like working there.

They didn't, I didn't,
they didn't gimme the job.

So I, I guess I'm, I guess I'm really
am un suited for anything else.

I mean, I think it was probably
in college, honestly, like working

at a, a blimpy sandwich shop.

Timothy Iseler: Yeah,

Scott Adamson: it's,
but it's been a while.

And um, I mean, like, I've done like
corporate work as an audio engineer,

so it's not really music biz.

So I have done some kind of like audio
work that's non non-music, but still,

it's been a long time for that too.

Timothy Iseler: What were your
jobs in the music business?

Scott Adamson: Well, I was in
college in Iowa City in my late

teens, uh, very early twenties.

Um, I got a job at this
club called Gabe's Oasis,

Timothy Iseler: Oh yeah.

Scott Adamson: which is a
legendary rock and roll club.

Been around since the seventies.

I saw a lot of great music
there, uh, during that time.

So I, I was working there and then another
couple other small clubs in Iowa City,

and then at the same time was working
out of my friend John Spec's little

studio there, little recording studios.

So I had record some, you know, college
type bands, you know, um, it's very much

a co college Midwest college music scene.

So I, I was working at the, the studio a
little bit and then live for a little bit,

and that, that carried on for a while.

Uh, even when I moved to Chicago, I
was working in recording and doing

live stuff, but eventually the,
the recording side of it fell off.

And, and decided to dedicate myself
completely to doing live music.

Timothy Iseler: What was on
in your life at that time?

Was there, did you have a gig that
was taking off in a big way and that

sort of made the decision about to
let go of the studio side of it.

Scott Adamson: yeah, I think really
the one that, the gig that did it

was there was, there's this guy,
Ted Leo, good friend and uh, great

musician and, uh, my old band was
opening up for him and his band.

and he was kind of getting a little
bigger and felt like it was time

for him to get a, an audio engineer
to help him out on the road.

So since we were already kind of doing
some shows together, uh, I kind of jumped

into that role and stayed with him.

That's about the same time I was leaving
Chicago, where my recording studio was.

So there was, that was
kind of the big transition.

There was a couple years of
touring pretty heavily with Ted.

And I moved to New York quickly after and
never really got into any recording there.

So that was really the, the job that kind
of got me into touring time, I think.

Timothy Iseler: Yeah.

was going on in your life?

well, we can just keep it to the, to the

Scott Adamson: Hmm.

Timothy Iseler: Financial side of
things that allowed you to do that?

Because, you know, I have an idea,
without ever having worked for Ted, I

have an idea of how much he would've paid
back then, and probably been exciting.

I would've been excited to be on that
tour, but I don't know that, uh, I

would've made parents excited for me.

Like, what was going on in your
life that allowed that to happen?

Scott Adamson: I mean, yeah, the money was
not good at all and it's, and still isn't

in, in that kind of level of touring.

There's, I have a lot of friends
that, that work in both as musicians

or sound engineers in that kind of
environment and they're, they really

have trouble making good money.

Um, I'm now currently working in like
much larger size, size production where

the, there is plenty of money to go around
and, um, can get a pretty decent salary.

But yeah, back then it was, it was tough.

But I think just like living cheaply.

I, I was not paying much rent in Chicago.

I haven't owned a car in my
entire adult life really.

I was able to kind of
live a pretty cheap life.

And then during, honestly during
a lot of that time as well,

I didn't have an apartment.

I was just kinda like living on the
road and bouncing from tour to tour,

spending a down times in various places,
Spain or Philadelphia or wherever, if I

had a little bit of time between tours.

But I was living a pretty lean lifestyle.

I didn't really have that
many, that many expenses.

However, that's being said, I was not
able to save any money during that time.

And that really, I think is the kind of
like mid to late twenties time of life...

the people that I know that do save a
lot, like you put money away at that

time, at that age, it really grows.

Right?

So,

Timothy Iseler: Yeah.

Scott Adamson: Um, and I was not
able to do that at all throughout

my, my entire, like late, mid,
late twenties, early thirties.

So

Timothy Iseler: Yeah.

Were you, were you thinking about or
was that just not even on your radar?

Scott Adamson: It, but I was also
just so used to living hand to mouth

and I, I really wanted to work in
the music industry and it felt like

I was so comfortable doing that,
and that's kind of what I knew.

And I, I'd always played around with the
idea of finding something more solid, a

more solid kind of career, kind of, um,

I don't know, a normal
type job, nine to five

Timothy Iseler: Mm-hmm.

Scott Adamson: Get on a, get on
salary and get benefits and be able to

squirrel 20% away with every paycheck.

But I just, I've just never,
could never make that transition.

I could never find anything that I
wanted to do that was, that, that

drew me in the way doing music does.

So I just stuck with it despite the
maybe less than ideal financial rewards.

Timothy Iseler: you and I have known each
other a long time, including back when

you had that studio in Chicago, and I
certainly knew you during the years when

you started with Ted Leo, and now, like
you you are working with much bigger bands

that there is more money going around.

When did that shift happen for you?

'Cause it seems like some people kind
of slug it out for long with not, you

know, and I'm not trying to talk down
on any bands, but slug it out for a

long time where they're like, they're
able to get by, but just get by.

And then it seems like if you're open to
it, those bigger opportunities do come up.

And I'm not necessarily asking you to
like do a bunch of name dropping, but

like how did that happen for you where you
sort of moved up the ranks a little bit.

Scott Adamson: Well, myself, like a lot of
other people who do what I do, there's a

lot of, there's talent involved of course,
but a lot of it is luck and who, you know.

In, in the touring industry, people
get hired because they know somebody.

there are job boards and stuff,
but usually the best jobs

don't get on the job boards.

They, their tour manager will
know somebody and call somebody

and then they're on the tour.

So it's, it does require
a certain bit of luck.

And I did have, I did have a bit of luck
with, uh, I think the first like really

kind of big large scale band I worked
with was a band called Passion Pit.

Who at the, this was like 2013, I believe.

And up until that point I kind, it
was mostly like lower level tours,

like really, really low budget stuff.

Um, but this, but Passion Pit, I,
I did that job for about a year and

we did like Madison Square Garden,
stuff like that , some big shows.

And they had proper budget, you
know, proper multi tour bus tours.

And, and looking back, I, I should have
gotten paid more than I did for, for

that job, but it was definitely a huge
increase from what I had been doing.

And I think I did like manage to save
a little bit of money during that time.

I think a lot of it was just kind
of feeling like I was catching

up from not having made money
that much money for a while.

So it, it felt good that year just
to be kind of stress free about

money and able to buy some nicer
things that I wanted and go on some

vacations and and, and stuff like that.

So, I just kind of moved to New York
City too, and which was also not cheap,

but that was, that was kind of the one
that really brought me out, up into like

kind of a larger scale touring world.

And then through that job I met some
people at, uh, Columbia Records who got

me on this, a job with a band called Haim,
which I did for a very, very long time.

I think I, I had you fill in for me on
a lot a gig or two at one point, Tim.

Timothy Iseler: You did.

Yes you did.

Scott.

Scott Adamson: uh,

Timothy Iseler: promptly got fired.

Scott Adamson: I, that that job was very,
very difficult, uh, staffing wise and with

money and all, like the, the money was
always a problem with that, with that gig.

But, um, I dunno, eventually,
eventually started getting

paid okay, uh, with that one.

And honestly just been like the past
couple years where really, like, I've

had a big increase in salary with some
of the pop, i'm kind of getting more

into pop world, less indie rock kind
of, uh, stuff that I grew up with.

So, uh, there's definitely a lot
more money in, in pop music than,

than the, the music of my roots.

And so, uh, and uh, and yeah, now I,
now I feel like I'm getting, uh, paid

a decent, you know, can make good money
actually, especially if I'm, if I can

put 180 days, six months of the year
out on the road, I, I make, make, yeah,

like able to make a, a lot, especially
'cause I've still kind of maintained

this kind of low spend lifestyle.

Still no car, still no child.

Um, and, and that's allows me to
finally feel like I have some money

to like, invest in, in things.

But I'm 48, so obviously those
investments are, don't have the time to

grow as investments in your twenties.

But trying, trying, I'm happy to
have got to a place where I, I am

able to make that kind of salary.

I, I did sweat it out, I feel, for like,
a lot, a lot of years and it was certainly

no guarantee that I was going to be able
to make a decent living at any point.

But it, it did work out for me
and now I'm happy 'cause I have a

job that I like and it pays well.

So it's, it's a, it's a fortunate
thing that most people don't get to do.

So I'm happy that I, I'm happy
to, happy to be where I'm at now.

Timothy Iseler: That's great.

You, you mentioned something a
minute ago about the, um, you

know, nepotism, cronyism who
you know in the music business.

And it strikes me, well, first of
all, I think that happens in every

business, a very large degree.

But I, I hadn't really thought of
it this way you were saying that,

but I think within the touring world
specifically, one of the only places

where almost anyone can get a chance.

And if you, if you fuck up a gig,
like you're not gonna move up.

But if you do a gig and you do
all right, you'll get asked for

the next thing and the next thing.

And you know, it, it does seem like a
world where if you kind of just keep

showing up, keep doing your best,
there is room for everybody to advance.

And not everybody advances.

And, and like you said,
there is some luck in it.

But, you know, the idea that would even
have an opportunity to go from mixing,

like say for example, you know, indie
rock bands who are maybe touring in a

van to like mixing a multi bus band that
is playing Madison Square Garden, like

even, even that's just a huge opportunity.

You know what I mean?

Scott Adamson: Yeah.

And turns out the longer you stick
around, the more opportunities come.

And I think that's, you know, I think.

Really sticking it out was
why I eventually had as many

opportunities as I have had.

And, you know, I've worked, toured with
a bunch of Grammy winners at this point.

It's, it's the opportunity has come and,
you know, and I'm like, I don't know...

i'm a really, I'm a nice guy.

I try to like, be cool to people and
all that, all that stuff really helps.

But, um, and I'm pretty
good mix engineer too.

But, but I think you're right.

I think there are like a lot of
opportunities for almost anybody.

I mean, it's the music industry, you can
be really weird and you can be really

like, I don't know, like an oddball that
wouldn't work in an office at all, but

somehow, if you're able to, you know, tune
a guitar and, you know, live on a bus and

not be a total jerk to people, then you
can go out on tour and, and that's great.

And the, and the opportunities do once
you start, once you're in somewhere and

you start to meet people, then that's,
of course, where the more jobs come from.

I think the initial, the hardest,
hardest part is that initial first gig.

Getting your foot in the
door, it's really tough.

I have people talk to me all the
time about how, how difficult it is.

And, since I do run a, a little like
online education thing that I do have

people who are just starting out asking
me all the time, how do I get in?

How do I get in?

And the answer is almost always, well
go talk to people, go meet people that

are already doing it, and, and ask
and show interest and be nice to them.

And that's kind of how you kind of get in.

But it, again, it requires luck.

Uh,

Timothy Iseler: Yeah.

Scott Adamson: so

Timothy Iseler: How often, uh, well, I,
we will circle back to The Production

Academy, but how often in those situations
where somebody's looking for advice on

how to get into the break into the touring
world, how often do you tell them about

like, you can just work for free and,
and when, how do people respond to that?

Because, like, first tour I did,
I'm not sure that I made any money.

second tour I did was four weeks
and I made a thousand bucks.

Scott Adamson: Yeah.

Timothy Iseler: Was, it was really,
really not good money, but I loved it.

And because I took those tours,
it led to every, it led to the

the next, and the next one.

You know what I mean?

Scott Adamson: yeah, I think that I've
been kind of influenced a little bit

in this, in that response with, uh, by
talking to other online educators and

people in the industry and their advice
is always, don't do anything for free.

Timothy Iseler: Hmm.

Scott Adamson: don't ever, you're,
it's, you know, you have to

like get paid for what you do.

And so I, while, while yes, you can get
opportunities and I, I wouldn't tell

anybody that they shouldn't take that
opportunity if they really want to, i,

I do, at the same time, I do feel like
you should be getting paid something.

And if someone can't afford even 75
bucks a day to have you out helping

on the tour or a hundred bucks a
day, you know, then that's then

maybe it's not really worth doing.

But I, but I don't know.

It's hard.

It's, it's hard.

It's also hard to start getting paid once
you're, someone's already not paying you

Timothy Iseler: Right.

Yeah, that's a good

Scott Adamson: once, once you kind of
start at zero, it's hard to get up to

even 50% of what you should be making.

Timothy Iseler: Mm-hmm.

Scott Adamson: But I don't know, it's
obviously every situation is different.

A lot of people that do it start off
with their friends bands, uh, and that,

that Ted Leo job that was, it wasn't
my first touring job, uh, but it was,

it was one that I got into because we
were from a, a mutual, mutual friends

and, and, and already knew each other.

And if, if you're want to go out on tour
with your friends for go hang out for

a couple weeks, it could be really fun.

And so maybe doing it for
free wouldn't be a bad idea.

But it's tricky 'cause the music
industry is extremely unregulated.

There's no set rates for anything.

There's no, you can't unionize in
tour, in touring, you can unionize

on the venue side of things because
the venues need people at that

specific place to, to do work.

So you have leverage, like a
crew has leverage over a venue.

But for, for touring, it's like a very
splintered, a ton of different little tiny

businesses, all these little LLCs that
people have as for their touring thing.

You could be a band and be going
out and, I don't know, playing a

thousand cap rooms or whatever it is.

And, you have an LLC that everyone is
paid under, but there's, you can't,

it's impossible to have leverage
over the band, that company, because

they can just hire someone else.

There's no place, there's no, there's no
way to force them to do anything there.

They can hire someone else.

At a venue, it's not, you can't
really do that , does that make sense?

Timothy Iseler: Yeah, it

Scott Adamson: yeah.

Yeah.

So,

Timothy Iseler: The venue, the venue
is stuck with whatever local labor pool

they have, but the touring band is, can
choose from anyone in any state or, or

Scott Adamson: yeah,

Timothy Iseler: any country,
depending on how big they are.

Scott Adamson: yeah.

Absolutely.

, So the touring world is weird.

And I don't know, I've been, a good
friend of mine is a cellist in the

Chicago Symphony Orchestra, and she
and I talk about this stuff a lot.

But like for this, for the
symphony, they're under contracts.

They have musicians,
unions, all this stuff.

And she asked me the other
day, she's like, like, you,

you have contracts, right?

I was like, no, I've, I've never had a
contract for any work I've ever done.

She was just like, flabbergasted.

But that's how the touring world
works, and it's loose, and you could be

booked for a two month tour and it gets
canceled last minute, and you're, you

know, you're, it's their discretion if
they're gonna give you any money or not.

Uh, there's, there's
no way to, to do that.

At least that's the way
it is in the States.

I, I know in the, in the uk, uh, there
are different rules, different laws.

I, I know some British touring people
that have been able to successfully, uh,

sue people in small claims court
who can canceled tours and refused

to pay anything to the tour, to
the crew that they had booked.

So, but here in the States,
yeah, you're, you're, you're

not really protected in any way.

What whatsoever.

Timothy Iseler: Yeah, yeah.

It's totally true.

, I, I guess I should have
given this for context.

When I did those first two tours,
I wa that wa I was taking vacation

from my job to go do them.

So it wasn't, I wasn't trying
to make a career out of touring.

And I can understand how, if someone
was trying to make a career out of

touring or even making a career out of
recording bands, like, you know, it's

one thing if you're leaving your job to
go do something, you know, do something

you think will be fun for two weeks.

And it's a different thing to say like,
I'm starting a career, I'll work for free.

Those are different things.

Scott Adamson: totally, totally.

Timothy Iseler: how much do you, at this
point in your life have to deal with

1099s or are you almost only W2 income?

Scott Adamson: Uh, currently
it's, it's honestly kind of at

my discretion, which I take.

bands like the big bands I work
for, they all have payroll.

So I usually have been taking W
twos because I don't want a big

tax bill at the end of the year.

And, and then, and they'll pay
some of the payroll tax and stuff.

Like, it's, it's a, it seems, I think
it works out a little better financially

for the, for the employee to take a W2.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

But, but I switched that last year
because I'm trying to buy a house and

I need as much money on hand as I can.

So I asked to switch to 10 90 nines and.

They've obliged.

So, uh, all the bands I work for
right now, I've just submit invoices

throughout the tour at the end of
the tour and get paid by 10 99.

So

Timothy Iseler: Yeah, you bring up a
good point about which one is better.

And, and I was actually having a
similar conversation about renting,

or excuse me, about leasing a
vehicle versus buying a vehicle.

And it's a similar situation where one in
one version, you kind of like, you have

more money the short term, but maybe not
in the long term, if that makes sense.

Scott Adamson: Yep.

Timothy Iseler: And if you wanted to
be nerdy and pull out your calculator

and figure it out, the assumption you'd
have to make or, or, or the calculation

you have to make is you chose the 10 99
over the W2 where you get all the money

versus some of the money being taken out
and going to taxes, you'd have to say

like, if I invested this money at this
rate of return, would I be better off?

Scott Adamson: Yeah.

Timothy Iseler: the tricky thing
about those calculations and those

assumptions is that almost nobody does it.

Scott Adamson: Right.

Timothy Iseler: know,

Scott Adamson: Yeah.

Timothy Iseler: think, I think if, I
think most people who are freelancers,

they're doing well if they're just
paying their quarterly taxes on time,

Scott Adamson: Yeah.

Timothy Iseler: and most people
I know who are in that situation,

just spend all the money and then,
then they're not any better off

Scott Adamson: It's,
it's so easy to do, man.

And, and look, I'm, I'm such
a terrible financial planner.

I am.

I always have been.

I don't do a budget for
myself at all, ever.

Timothy Iseler: Mm-hmm.

Scott Adamson: Just, I'm, I'm winging it.

So like, which is not, obviously
not a good thing to do.

It's not a good way to, to be financially
secure, but that's, you know, I'm

trying to do better these days about it.

But, you know, and every year I tell
myself, oh, make a budget for, make

a monthly budget for yourself, Scott.

You know, like, plan it out a little bit.

Be, you know, be better.

And I just, it just never happens.

So I, at one point when I was, uh,
married, had a financial planner, uh,

my ex, my ex-wife and I did, and that
was like, there was like this window

of like five years of where he was...

we didn't really have a budget.

He, he, he said he would've helped me
with a budget if I'd wanted, but I feel

like my finances were in great shape at
that time because he was kind of forcing

us, you know, he's like, you have to do
your, you know, your IRAs every year.

You have to, you know, do some, you know,
death by a a thousand cuts or whatever.

You had to.

You gotta, if you really want do it
there, you have to, all these little

things that, that you have to do to
that turn into the big picture of

being little Fi financially secure.

So, but then of course, uh,
post-divorce, stopped using the guy.

And now I'm back to, um, my terrible,
terrible financial planning habits.

Timothy Iseler: Yeah,

I know some people who have had
great luck budgeting, I think if

you're the type of person who, who
likes it, know, resonates with that

approach, I think it can be great.

I know that I personally have never
made a budget and stuck to it.

So whenever I do anything like, it's
just an, it's just out of awareness.

I just wanna know like, about how much
am I spending on groceries, but I'm

never like at the grocery store saying
like, oh man, I better, you know,

better skip this, you know, whatever.

Scott Adamson: yeah.

Timothy Iseler: yogurt this

Scott Adamson: Yeah.

Timothy Iseler: I'm gonna go over, right?

It's never influenced how I spend, but
I do think it's good to know how much

you're spending, even if it's not like,
um, you know, proscriptive, like, you

should do this, you should do that.

but I think there are other ways to
get to the same result of feeling

like, okay, I'm doing the right stuff.

So, like you said, if you're, you
know, if, if you're putting money

in your IRA, if you're saving
money in a bank account, you know.

you're doing those other whatever,
maybe not a million or a thousand,

but if you're doing sort of like
five other things that are good money

habits, then I think you can get by
without a budget kind of forever.

And you mentioned you live pretty
frugally and you have for a long time.

So I think, I don't know necessarily
that having a budget is gonna be

like a super bang for the buck if
you're in that situation where you're

comfortable keeping your expenses low.

I think, I think if you can do some of
the other stuff instead, it would the

same result without that feeling of
like, oh, I should really do it, right?

Scott Adamson: Yeah, yeah, totally.

Timothy Iseler: Yeah.

Scott Adamson: Yeah, it's.

It's just have a mental block to it.

It's, it's just not, it's
just not gonna happen.

And that's fine.

I like, I just want to, you know, try
to be nicer to myself in many ways.

Like in, in life in general, this
sort of thing, like, oh, I really

should be doing like yoga every day.

Well, it's okay if I only do it four
times a week, it's fine, you know, or

three times, whatever it is, it's okay.

Or whatever hap whatever good habit that
I'm trying to form or anything like that.

So, so I'm just, you know, trying
to like accept the fact that I, that

living without a budget is okay.

And, and honestly, like my, my mom
does this thing that she got from Dave

Ramsey, the, the famous like financial
planner dude, where she just puts

money in envelopes, cash in envelopes.

And so I've done that kind of a little
bit and I think that's in the future,

I think that's where my, how my budget
budgeting is, is going to, to go down.

Just put, you know, at the start of
every week or every couple weeks,

just put cash in the grocery envelope
or put cash in the, in, in the beer

money envelope or whatever it is.

so we'll see.

But

Timothy Iseler: Yeah, that, like using
cash, uh, I know that's like kind of old

fashioned at this point, but very helpful
thing about that is if you go to your,

whatever your, your beer money envelope
and it's empty, you're like, oh, okay.

You know, the decision is made for me.

Whereas if it's your credit
card, you can always, always

add a a little more, you know?

Scott Adamson: Exactly.

Timothy Iseler: For people who don't
want to keep a lot of cash around, it

little more work I think you can also
get a similar result by having like

multiple checking accounts where it's
like, this is the one where the rent

and all the utilities get paid, and then
this is the one where it's, you know,

Scott Adamson: yeah.

Timothy Iseler: just me
going out and having fun.

And that way, know, you're, you're kind
of accomplishing the same thing, but you

don't have to have paper money around.

Although I do think paper, having paper
money does kind of force it in a way

that a credit card or even a debit card
lets you get away with a little more.

Scott Adamson: Yeah, totally.

Yeah.

It's like it's hard and
fast there, there it is.

Like envelope's empty
and not going to the bar.

It's okay.

Timothy Iseler: Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Scott Adamson: But yeah, I, I don't know.

It's, uh, it's something I, I
really wish I had been better

about all this stuff for longer.

And, and, and honestly, those five
years, like I was talking about where

I was actually kind of on it and
paying attention to it, forced to be

by, you know, my, my partner and our
financial planner, which is a good

thing, that kind of era of savings
has allowed me to like work on buying

this house that I'm trying to buy.

So.

I'm glad I did have a period of time
where I was better about all this stuff

and it's, it's has certainly provided me
some options now, uh, at, at this point.

So wish I'd been doing it for longer, but,

Timothy Iseler: Yeah.

When you think about that, are
there any specific things that you

wish you had been doing longer?

Scott Adamson: Put money
in an IRA every year

Timothy Iseler: Hmm.

Scott Adamson: instead of Yeah,
even something, whatever it was.

Just, just get it, getting it in there.

Or, you know, with the financial planner,
we set up a stock portfolio, but I don't

know, just make, making sure I put 10%
of my paycheck, just a lit little bits.

It, it, it was always a thing
where I was like, oh, it's just

like, what is 50 bucks gonna do?

Or what is a hundred bucks gonna do?

Well, it adds up.

It really, really does.

And I just didn't really believe that I
was gonna make that big of a difference.

I was always kind of imagined this time,
like later, well, there's gonna be time,

time later in life where I'm making a
lot more money and or whatever, just

kind of, I think a lot of people in their
twenties think that they're gonna make a

lot of money at some point in their life.

I think every everyone
thinks they're gonna be rich.

It's, it's funny, like I meet,
I meet so many people in their

twenties who are like, who are just
convinced they're gonna be rich.

It's like, well, how are you
gonna, how can you get there?

They're like, I don't know.

It's just, it's gonna happen.

It's like...

but I, I especially in that, in those
younger years, even though I was living

pretty hand in mouth, I, I could have,
I could have siphoned off a little bit.

Yeah.

Timothy Iseler: Yeah,
that's a great point.

Uh, often people will ask me some
version of like, how much money do you

need before you can start investing?

Or something like that.

Or like, I don't have enough
money to start investing.

that might've been true like 20 years
ago where every trade had a commission

fee built on top of it and whatever.

But these days, it's not true all.

And I think you made a a great point.

It's, it feels like, well,
what's 50 bucks gonna do?

You know?

But number one, it's better than nothing.

And number two, it like both saving in
a savings account and investing, it's a

weird thing where if you do it for a long
time, you get this compounding growth.

And it's hard for our brains to
understand because at first it just

doesn't really look like very much
at at all, but if you can stick

with it long time, then it starts to
like, you know, up into the right.

And so if you can just hold on, you
know, an extra whatever, 10 years,

all of a sudden your money doubles and
then you hang on and it doubles again.

And it's so hard to understand.

But yeah, I think everybody, at
any income level, even if it seems

like such a trivial amount, like a
a dollar a day or something, just

Scott Adamson: Yeah,

Timothy Iseler: you can save, it's
something and it will, your future

self will be happy that you did it.

Scott Adamson: a hundred percent.

And then you, and, and you just
get into the habit of it, right?

If you're, if you're doing it and
you're, you know, and you're in

the practice, in the habit, then
that's, I never gotten that habit.

So

Timothy Iseler: Yeah.

Scott Adamson: Feel like maybe if I had
had the modern apps, the technology to

like, kind of make it fun to be able
to like easily track your investments.

And I mean, like, there's all kinds
of like great investing tools, I'm

sure, like, these days with, with
the digital banking that we all do.

But I don't know, it was....

it was hard to visualize
it back then for sure.

Timothy Iseler: Yeah,

Scott Adamson: but now it's, I don't
know, now it's kind of, now it's fun to

like watch investments grow, like log on
to Fidelity and watch, watch that, that,

that chart just kind of go on the upswing.

It's, yeah, it's

Timothy Iseler: yeah,

Scott Adamson: kind of rude, but it's,
it is fun, fun making money, like...

Timothy Iseler: yeah, yeah.

It's a thing that.

It's interesting 'cause when I was younger
I would've thought that kind of talk

was, um, you know, very declassé, like,

Scott Adamson: yeah.

Timothy Iseler: talking about investing.

But also I didn't even know that it
was possible for someone like me, you

Scott Adamson: Yeah.

Timothy Iseler: Didn't know how you
opened an account or, you, you know, i,

it's weird, i, I never put any research
into it, but I just kind of thought

like, people who work at recording
studios don't do things like that.

You

Scott Adamson: Exactly.

An

Timothy Iseler: in an office and
have a, know, a benefits package,

and then you think about that stuff.

And it was harder to do 25
years ago than it is now.

But it, it's, it's both things.

Like, I thought it was not, I thought
it was inappropriate or, uh, I'll just

say I thought that people who thought
about those things were bad people.

And

Scott Adamson: Right,

Timothy Iseler: oh man, there's
no prize for sitting it out.

You know?

Scott Adamson: exactly.

Timothy Iseler: you know
that when you're young?

Scott Adamson: Well, and that's, yeah.

You're, you're just, it's not what
you're thinking about at 25, right?

You're thinking about the world
around you and all the potential

of life and where you're gonna go.

And you know, like I said, everyone has
like these very rosy versions of their

future selves before they're faced with
the harsh realities of life like that that

will beat them down into, into middle age.

But, uh, I'm joking, but, but
no, it, it is hard to understand.

It is hard to, to envision yourself
at when you're 25 to, to being 45

or 50 and not having any kind of
financial security or, or making money.

And, uh, obviously there's so many
people we know that are in that age

range, especially now with the way
the workforce is turning and all the

AI influence and stuff, like, I know
so many people in their late forties,

early fifties, are outta work, having
trouble figuring, like finding jobs,

but even, like, figuring out what
they're gonna do over the next 20 years.

Like, you know, you gotta gotta
work till 70, you know, in general.

Right.

So, you know, what, what do you get?

People are, and it, it's, it is very
stressful for people and it's tough.

And if have a little more planning
with that, it, it can, it can

ease that situation greatly.

Yeah.

Timothy Iseler: It's one of those it's
like a total cliche, but that saying about

the best time to plant a tree was 20 years
ago, and the second best time is today.

Scott Adamson: Yeah.

Timothy Iseler: It's totally true.

If you're our age and you haven't
been saving, like it sucks.

It would've been great if you had done
it 20 years ago, but the, you know,

Scott Adamson: Yeah.

You still got t 20 years until 70.

Timothy Iseler: Like you, you 20 years
from now be very happy if, if you made,

you know, started taking those moves.

Scott Adamson: Yeah.

And it's anything, right?

Like, geez, if you can, I don't
know, however, however much money

aside, it's, it's, it's going,
you'll, you'll need it in the future.

And having, you know, even like, I don't
know, having a hundred K in, uh, savings,

you know, portfolio somewhere will come
in hand handy greatly at the age of 70

if you're not, if you, if you don't have
other, uh, you know, resources, I mean,

Timothy Iseler: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was just talking the other day just
about, someone who is like, are, you

know, am I gonna be able to retire?

And, you know,

this person was not in the, the,
uh, most optimal financial health.

And it's like, well, you know, I
don't know if I can promise you

that you'll retire at 65, but
you might be in a position where

instead of working five days a week,
you're working three days a week.

You know?

Scott Adamson: Yeah.

Timothy Iseler: how about that?

Wouldn't that be a much better life?

You get, you know, you get
a four day weekend every

single week, that'd be great.

Scott Adamson: Yeah.

Timothy Iseler: So even if you, even if
it feels like it's a long way away, you

can at least move in the right direction.

Scott Adamson: yeah, totally.

Yeah.

I was just on a tour recently with
someone who's become a, a good buddy of

mine, and he's in his seventies and he's
been touring for a very, very long time.

It's like 45 years or whatever.

And he's done some huge tours.

He was like, he used to work for U2,
like guitar tech, he used to, uh,

take care of the Edge and Duran Duran,
all these like huge, like big bands

and, and has had a great career like
traveling around the world doing this.

And, but we were working together,
and he's in his seventies

and did not necessarily wanna
be on tour in his seventies.

And, and he actually, he got me thinking
a lot about this, all this like, um,

financial stuff because I don't want to
be in the same spot when I'm his age.

And, and he, you know, all the stories
of back in the day when he was just

touring all the time and had tons of
money around, there's always more money

coming in, like more touring and all that.

And he just didn't, didn't, didn't
do the things he needed to do to

make sure that at 73 he didn't have
to go on a tour bus for a month.

I mean, maybe he likes touring
still, and I'm sure could do, like,

you know, you work 50 days outta
the year or something like that.

It's a nice part-time job, but you
need that other revenue, you know,

that other source of, of revenue.

So, so yeah, that, that, that
really got me kind of like worked,

worked up about a lot of stuff, uh,
which is good 'cause I, I need, I

needed that kind of visualization
of, of what not to do, right?

Like I need, I needed to see someone
who is also in, in my industry, who

is in a spot that I don't want to be,
that I could, if I'm, if I make the

right decisions now or I'm smarter
now, I don't necessarily have to be in.

Timothy Iseler: Yeah.

You mentioned earlier that now
you're in a, in a situation where

you're making pretty good money; how
do you decide how much you charge?

Scott Adamson: uh, I mean, I have, I have,
even though I, earlier I said there's no

set rates, there's no industry standards,
i, there is a, I kind of have an idea

of what other people who are in similar
positions, similar sized bands, charge.

So i've discussed enough, I bring it
up enough and ask enough questions to

colleagues to kind of get that sense.

Some people don't like to talk about
money at all and have no idea what

other people make, but I feel like it's
beneficial to all of us really to kind

of have a general idea of what you should
be asking, or what people can afford.

It's also hard for us 'cause we don't
know what, every artist is different,

of course, but it's hard to understand
how much money they actually make or how

much money a tour is profiting or not.

Uh, some tours lose money and
everyone's still gotta get paid.

So, it's a little opaque, but I've
definitely arrived at the position,

it's like my rate's, my rate.

If I'm gonna go do a big arena
tour or go do something small or

whatever, I'm, I'm gonna charge,
I'm gonna charge the same amount.

So...

I would make exceptions.

If it was a band I really liked
and it was like a short tour and

I really kind of wanted to do it
for fun, I would take less money.

But, I'm kind of at that age where,
I mean, these have to be the, the

biggest money earning years of my life.

I'm 48, the next 10 years are huge.

Timothy Iseler: Yeah.

Scott Adamson: I, in my mind I was
like, take the, take the big money

stuff, do that as much as possible
and, and not really kind of, I

don't know, take lower paying work
or, or compromise on rates at all.

So...

Timothy Iseler: yeah.

Are you good at that?

Are you good at saying no?

If they come back and they're
like, oh yeah, we can't do that.

Scott Adamson: uh, no, I'm terrible
at negotiating and I'm terrible, like,

like almost every musician I know.

I mean, like a lot of, a lot of our
people that in the touring world are

people that were musicians that their
bands didn't really quite do the thing.

So they're out there touring around
as sound engineer or guitar technician

or tour manager or whatever.

but we're all of a kind
of a, of a similar ilk.

And I think that people with
our personalities aren't very

good, we're not business-minded.

Which I have learned, I always thought,
I, I thought I was better at it than I am.

I have learned throughout life that
I'm need to accept the fact that

I'm just terrible at negotiating
and terrible at, at thinking about,

about the business side of things.

Which is also a problem in
with my online e-commerce

business, The Production Academy.

Like I've, that was a lesson, another
lesson I learned with that whole project.

But, but no, but we're, we're bad.

And it's, I feel like there's, we should
be supporting each other in this, in

this industry, the people that are in
the touring industry and a lot of people

are supportive and do try to talk about
ways to negotiate or encourage you.

I always encourage other people to stay
strong, come up with the number you

want, and go in there and, and say it.

But it, it's hard 'cause it, 'cause again,
you, you want the tour 'cause you want

to, if you're trying to build a career
in touring you, you really want the job.

'cause the job can lead to other jobs.

And, sometimes it's hard.

You, you don't, people get scared about
for asking too much 'cause they're

scared they're not gonna get it.

So

Timothy Iseler: Yeah.

Scott Adamson: it, it's,
it's tough And yeah.

And that's, I think that's another
reason why musicians get, taken

advantage of a lot in the music industry

Timothy Iseler: Hmm.

Scott Adamson: So than the, the, the
tech side of things because musicians

very, very, very much so don't like value
themselves monetarily highly enough.

I mean it, and, and there are so
many musicians that would love

to go out on any tour period.

Uh, there's so, like, there's a
huge amount, huge labor force,

cheap labor force out there.

So people don't stick up for themselves.

People don't get paid well enough.

in general, musicians and crew alike.

Timothy Iseler: Yeah.

So let's talk about
The Production Academy.

What's the status of that right now?

Scott Adamson: well, as I
started, I started working on

that, on that thing, maybe 2016.

I was really starting to put
together the basic, basic stuff.

I think the first course, first
product I launched was in 2017, and

second product I launched was 2019.

and then throughout the pandemic was
working really hard on it, trying to

do all these webinars and building,
and building, and building, building

this product that I had in mind.

And finally kind of got to a point where
the entire product was built and I was

like really happy with what it was and
decided to stop building new content

and package it up all nice and neatly
and get, get all the, have all the

sales and the marketing stuff in place.

And it's all working and
working, working on it.

And then, uh, let's see, it's 26 now.

So like, top of 20 24 I made, I was
like moving content to a new platform.

What, whatever, blah, blah, blah.

And I just hit this burnout point.

I got, I got the whole
thing up and launched.

It looks great.

It operates fine.

It can operate in a
pretty like passive way.

People can sign up and for registrations
or whatever and for, uh, subscriptions

and get access to the course, whatever,
go through the whole thing without

me needing to do anything really.

But a couple years ago, I, I hit major
burnout with it , and I just stopped.

I just stopped doing, I, I haven't made a
single piece of new content since mid 23.

So that's, that's, that's a while.

And I was like really
trying to focus on sales.

I, I was hiring sales salespeople, trying
to get revenue, going more and trying to

find the people that wanted the product.

Uh, but it just, it wasn't working.

I mean, it makes some money,
a little bit of money.

Right now it just essentially
just pays for itself.

But, but I haven't touched it in a year
and a half, so, or almost two years.

So it's okay that it can still
like, operate in a totally

passive way and pay for itself.

But it's essentially
sitting in limbo right now.

And I'm hoping that at some point
I will have the energy to get back

into it, and make more content and
hopefully make some more sales.

But, uh, I don't know
when that's gonna be.

Typically it's this time of year
that I work on this, on that stuff,

uh, January, February, March, when
touring is slow, but I just haven't

had any desire to do it this year.

So, uh, which is, I don't know,
a little unfortunate, uh, I, I

definitely had bigger ideas for it
than those that came to fruition.

I'm also proud of it,
and I'm happy to exist.

And, and I, and it, it helps people
so that, like the ultimate goal is

being served of helping the community,
and it does, it does do that.

So I'm, I'm happy with that.

but you know, financially
it was never really good.

And honestly, if I.

I mean, I, let's see.

I, I've, I can just tell you, I, yeah,
I think over the course of the past

10 years, maybe sold half a million
dollars of courses, uh, of revenue, but

that's very little of that was profit.

So, but...

so it's good.

I, I'm happy that I've built a business
where people paid for something and it,

and it served them and they were getting
good reviews and it's, it's helpful and

all that, and revenue comes in and bills
are paid and all that sort of thing.

But like I mentioned, I'm not good
at business stuff, so I spent so much

time in the first five, you know,
especially in the first few years up,

definitely up until the pandemic, of
obsessing over all these details of

this product that I wanted to build,
this platform I wanted to build.

And I get so wrapped up in all this stuff.

I was not thinking about sales.

I was not thinking about going
out and making calls and finding

people that wanted it to use it.

I, it was too bad.

I was like ahead of the
curve, honestly, on it.

And I, if I had a partner that was better
with that stuff and dedicated to sales,

it would've been way, way, way bigger.

But I didn't, and I was stuck in
my own little musician brain, like

obsessing over these, all these
little things that ultimately in the

big picture didn't really matter for
actually bus for the business at all.

It just, they mattered because I wanted
the thing to look really good and read

really well, and I wanted to make the
best possible courses I could on the

subject matter, and that's what I did.

But that, I spent a hundred percent
of my time doing that and very

little on the actual going out and
generating revenue side of things.

I thought it would fall in place.

But it doesn't.

You have to, you have to search it out and
look at data and, you know, you have to,

like, especially with e-commerce, you need
to be on, you know, all these different

analytical, you know, Google Analytics.

You need to track who's looking at
your website and dive down into the

granular stuff of the web traffic
that's coming in and how to find

people and running ads and looking at
results like in a very granular level.

And I just, I just
never, I never did that.

Um, so, so that was a good
lesson for me to learn.

Uh.

Whatever next entrepreneurial
thing I try to do.

Uh, now I know that, first
of all, to not do it alone.

I, I,

Timothy Iseler: Ah.

Scott Adamson: I, I'm glad I, I did it
alone in one way, just 'cause I had,

I had to learn that I, what skills
I have and what skills I don't have.

What comes naturally to me and
what doesn't come naturally to me.

But at the same time, you know,
that was, now I know doing it

alone is just, it's too much.

Um, and if, you know, I've learned
that good successful businesses,

people that I've seen work, they
have complimentary skill sets.

Timothy Iseler: Mm-hmm.

Scott Adamson: There was someone that,
uh, there was this little company that

called MXU that uh, did the similar thing
to what I did, like education stuff.

They were like mostly focused on
church audio, church lighting,

you know, church production stuff.

But, you know, they, they had
multiple people, one of whom was

an excellent salesman, and went
out and pounded the pavement.

And they, they did pretty,
they did pretty well.

So now I know that next thing
I do, I need someone like that.

I need someone, I need someone who's
going to be thinking about finances and

revenue, constantly trying to search
out new revenue streams, trying to

search out new whatever ways to promote
and, and, and, and up, up the revenue.

So I'm glad I have that,
that lesson under my belt.

But, here I am sitting with a pretty s
like non-functioning e-commerce business.

I mean, it functions, but a, a, you know,
a stagnant kind of e-commerce business.

Timothy Iseler: Yeah, maybe
this will resonate with you.

I was just having this conversation
with my wife the other day, and I'm

not gonna name this person's name,
but there's an audio engineer, a, a

live sound engineer that I know and
have worked with a couple of times.

And thing he would do is after the
show, he would come and he would tell

the artist what a great job he did.

In a way where it's like, if you
didn't know what any of the technical

terms meant, you'd be like, wow,
that person really did a lot.

But if you knew what the technical
terms meant, you'd be like, you

just did what everyone does.

You know when you talk about, oh
yeah, this, I put the compressor

on your vocal to just really glued
it to the mix and you're like, shut

up, that doesn't, mean anything.

That's stupid.

And I think back on that, and
attitude was always like the work,

like I should be judged on the work.

And I put in the work and I worked hard.

And you know, the people who
do that, that's bullshit, you

Scott Adamson: Yeah.

Timothy Iseler: And now I think
on it and I'm like, man, if I

would've tried just a little harder
on sales, you know what I mean?

Scott Adamson: yep.

Timothy Iseler: selling
myself a little bit.

You know, I, because I never went to
the band and was like, oh, your vocals,

your guitar sounded so good tonight.

I did such a great job.

I never did that to anyone ever.

And it aligns with how I think
about the job and how I think about

work and myself and everything.

But there are times where I'm
like, if I had just done a little

bit about, of that kind of work, I
probably would've had a better career.

I probably would've had more
of the opportunities I wanted.

Probably would've made more money.

Probably would've, you know,
not been so grumpy all the time.

And, and I don't know, there is that
thing, it, it's, it's so hard when it

comes to, when you have an idea for
a product or a service or something

you wanna have out in the world, it's
hard to then switch into that mode of

like, I also have to be the person who
is gonna be the cheerleader for this

thing to every single person they meet.

Do you know what I mean?

Scott Adamson: It's a completely
different skillset and it's, and it's

really hard to do both at the same time.

That's what I found with,
with The Production Academy.

I'd go from curriculum development
mode to filming mode, and then I'd

have to get into the sales mode.

I, because I'd marketing mode, which I
did a lot of work, I did a lot of stuff

with all that, but I was, it, it needs
both aspects to be going all the time to,

to, for me to have realized the vision
of what I wanted that to be, it would've

taken at least two full-time people,

Timothy Iseler: yeah.

Scott Adamson: me or you know, uh, product
development and then also on sales.

Timothy Iseler: Yeah,

Scott Adamson: and I didn't
know that when I started.

I thought it'd be, I thought it'd be easy.

I didn't really think I needed
to sell, sell, sell, but I did.

Timothy Iseler: yeah, yeah.

before move on, what kind of
stuff is available right now?

If somebody was gonna check it out,
what kind of courses could they take?

What could they learn?

Scott Adamson: Uh, I have a free platform,
which is, , some live sound basics.

It has, there's a wireless audio course
on there, there's a little mixing course

on there, there's, uh, a bunch, a bunch
of little, a bunch of free stuff, a bunch

of videos and resources that are available
with the free platform, uh, which you

could find at theproductionacademy.com.

And , I also have a, a page platform,
which is called the TPA All Access,

and that's either subscription or
one time lifetime membership fee.

I kind of alternate which pricing plan is
available, which is probably not good, but

that's how, that's how it's working out.

But, um...

so, and that has a ton, ton, ton of stuff.

Not only like our flagship courses on
live sound, tour managing, there's a

whole touring course on there talking
about the touring industry, which I did

with a really good friend of mine who's
an excellent tour manager, Misty Roberts.

Uh, there's a show power course on
there that's pretty extensive course

on electricity and how we use power to
power productions, lighting and audio.

And then tons of interviews with industry
professionals and there's like hours

and hours and hours of all that stuff.

Plus it's all very accurately
transcribed and it's very

easily searchable by keywords.

So you can go on this platform and
just find anything, any subject you're

looking for, it's all searchable.

And there's like a little AI bot on
there too, which I call the Scott bot.

You can, you can ask, ask questions too.

And, uh, it'll, it uses my
curriculum as the, as the data

set to come up with answers.

So it's a, it's pretty robust
platform and a a lot to learn.

Definitely people that are getting
into the, into the industry have,

have found it extremely useful.

So, and you know, I'm always available by,
by email, Scott@theproductionacademy.com,

if anyone ever has any
questions, can always hit me up.

But, so that's kind of, that's
kind of what, , what's available

right now with the production.

Timothy Iseler: Cool.

I think we can start to wind down here.

I end every show with a
question from my guest.

Yours very much relates to what we've been
talking about, and I want to, we're, we're

following a few different threads here.

Your question was how do we
approach online education.

so we have been talking about that,
but one of the things you just said

that stood out to me was the, um,
the human connection aspect of it.

And the thing that I've noticed is
when I've taken online courses or

webinars or whatever, when I am , I
don't wanna say passive, but when

I'm sort of like passively taking a
course or sitting in on a webinar or

something, takes a lot to get excited.

But if there's some kind of a, a
live interaction component, it's

much, much easier for me to get into
the moment, if that makes sense.

Scott Adamson: Yeah, it does make sense.

Timothy Iseler: don't know to what extent
you could or you want to, or you have in

the past done like live production academy
events or, you know, even online things

like live office hours or something like
that where someone can just and talk to a

human as opposed to just, take the class
on their own and, and that kind of stuff.

But when, whenever I've had those kinds of
situations, that's what clicks with me the

best is when I can for at least some part
of it, have that kind of back and forth.

Scott Adamson: Totally.

and I've thought about that a lot.

And actually, like during the
pandemic, I was doing a lot every week

Timothy Iseler: I.

Scott Adamson: 'Cause it, all
the touring people were at home.

So I had two guests on and
we'd have live webinar with a

lot of people were showing up.

We'd have like a hundred, 150 people like
join every webinar and asking questions

and being interactive and was, it was fun.

Great.

And, uh, by the way, all that
stuff is archived as part

of the TPA all access stuff.

So...

but it, it felt good.

I mean it during that time of course
with the pandemic, it was just good

to connect in any way possible to feel
human connection in any way possible.

But I definitely think that for
me, for The Production Academy,

the future of it, assuming that I
get back into working on it at some

point, will involve more of that.

Honestly, I would like, I would like
to have a live one week, two week

live training somewhere with all the
gear, put your hands on all the gear,

meet people, c Connect, communicate
and meet people, professionals that

work in the industry and, you know,
live music production bootcamp.

would love to do that.

but again, I, I couldn't
do it on my, on my own.

That would be a huge
project to put together.

So, and you find the right people and
it's, it's hard, it's hard to think

about and plan out when, you know,
my touring schedule is so random

and also, so I, and I think I'll be,
I'll be really, I did have a couple

slow years these past couple years.

It's, it's tough how the
freelance shit works out, but,

Timothy Iseler: Yeah.

Scott Adamson: Now I'm gonna be
really busy for the next couple years.

So I, at some point I'd like
to explore those possibilities.

But def definitely that, that
human interaction part of

learning is, is important.

I think that it will be more and more
important as, as the AI gets into

our lives and, uh, and we become more
comfortable with relying on the AI

to, to communicate with and to learn
from and stuff like, we're going to

eventually really value those human
interaction things more as in society.

I, I hope.

Timothy Iseler: I thought of
something when you brought up

having a live in-person event and
everyone can touch this stuff.

I think a big aspect of online
education or, or a big factor that

can it work is when the students feel
like they're part of a community.

Scott Adamson: Yeah.

Timothy Iseler: you know what I mean?

And that definitely happens if you do an
in-person event and like everybody's kind

of meeting each other and they're learning
the stuff at the same time or whatever.

Scott Adamson: Yeah.

Timothy Iseler: But that, I think
that also kind of happens if you

can break people out into cohorts or
smaller groups where they're e even if

it's online, you know, where they're
seeing the same people or the same

names pop up over and over again.

Scott Adamson: Yeah.

Timothy Iseler: Something more
interactive than just a forum where

you're kind of just, you know...

I think forums tend to be very impersonal.

Like you might recognize somebody's name
but you don't necessarily know their face.

Somewhere between that and like a
one-on-one live class, but where

the, there's a community element
and then the people that are

involved are kind of supporting
each other along the way as well.

I think that might be for, for
all kinds of online education in

the future, I think that that part
of it will be really important.

Scott Adamson: Totally.

And I, I did really try to
start community stuff with this.

Uh, I've tried a couple different
platforms trying to invite people to...

what, what is one of 'em called?

Circle, I think was one, or there's,
there's a couple different, um,

Timothy Iseler: of that.

Scott Adamson: Yeah, it's community
building stuff where you, you go and you

create a profile and you can interact
with people, and I thought it'd be great.

I thought, you know, everyone would
get on there and it would be a good

way to interact, but no one signed up.

Timothy Iseler: Hmm.

Scott Adamson: It was like, I think
everyone just has too much going.

There's already too much online.

Like, like pe people are signing into
Instagram, whatever, you know, and I

don't do any social media, so like, I
don't waste waste two hours of my day

doing it every day, but like, but most
people do and or they're, they have to

like, sign into this thing or this thing.

And I, I think people just, or
at least that when I, when no one

kind of was participating in what
I was trying to start, it kind

of, it kind of felt that way.

People were just like not another
thing I have to do online, like...

but yeah, so that doesn't mean
that it won't work, but it would,

uh, I think a different kind of
approach would be necessary, but

Timothy Iseler: yeah.

I wish I had good answers for you on
that front because I often think about

doing some kind of an educational course.

Like I thought about, what if that was
every week you get an email from me

or, you know, do I do one where there's
a portal where you log in and there's

videos, or you know, what would it be?

the, the thing that I always get caught
up in is like, I want it to be valuable

enough that someone's gonna sign up, but
I don't wanna like build the whole thing

and then figure out if people want it.

Scott Adamson: Right.

Timothy Iseler: mean?

I

Scott Adamson: Yeah.

Timothy Iseler: That's,
that's the hardest thing.

And like, like just, you just
totally hit the nail on the head.

Like the idea of community,
it's like, it's a no brainer.

But then how do you actually build it
in a way where people are gonna show up?

You kind of have to, I feel like you
kind of have to be like testing the

idea as you're doing it, then be willing
to be like, well, that thing, doing

that, let's give up, let's do this.

You know?

And, it takes a energy to be
trying things over and over just

to see what works, you know?

Scott Adamson: Oh yeah.

It takes a lot of energy and
I, I spent all of mine and,

Timothy Iseler: Oh.

Scott Adamson: and, and, and
doing this, which is why I,

which is why I got burned out.

I was just trying all these
different things and I was

feeling like nothing stuck.

Timothy Iseler: Yeah.

Scott Adamson: like, I mean, financially
nothing was working really well

Timothy Iseler: Mm-hmm.

Scott Adamson: as, as well as I wanted to.

But also like with the community
stuff, like there were, I, I was, I

wasn't able to like build that either.

Like there all these, all these
things that just kind of weren't

working very well for me.

And yeah, stopped working on it.

I mean, I, I put a solid,
like, I don't know, eight, nine

years of working hard on it.

and the pandemic was not good.

I, I was 2019, I was having,
I had a lot of momentum going.

I was making good sales.

I was, I, I was really looking good.

I was planning new courses and
I had, I had it rolling and

then it just all went sideways.

So,

Timothy Iseler: Mm-hmm.

Scott Adamson: and never
really recovered afterwards.

So,

but oh.

Timothy Iseler: Oh well.

Scott Adamson: Lessons, lessons, lessons.

Well, no, it's all good.

I mean, like, I've learned a lot
about myself with the whole process.

I've learned a lot and I, you know,
it, it has made money, so it's not

a lot, but some, so, and it still
continues to, to roll and people

sign up for it and it helps people.

So it's all, I'm, I'm happy that
it's, I'm happy that I've done

it, but just the reality of what
it ended up being is not what my

expectations were in the beginning.

Timothy Iseler: Yeah,

Scott Adamson: now, but now I have
better expectations and better experience

and know anything else that I do in
life, whatever that influences all

your decisions going forward, right?

And all, all the things,
your life experience.

So I'm ha I'm happy that I've gone
through the process and understand

myself and money and sales and, and ENT
entrepreneurship much, much, much better.

So, and that will, that
will serve me later in life.

'cause um, I want to do something else.

I don't know what it'll be.

Maybe it'll still be The Production
Academy may, maybe it'll be

something it's totally different.

Kind of wanna open a coffee
shop maybe, but, um, but...

but yeah, but all those, all those
experiences are, are, are, are valuable

in and of themselves in, in helping, uh,
shape future decisions and, and pathways.

Timothy Iseler: Yeah, that seems
like a great place to wrap it up.

Scott Adamson: Sounds good.

Timothy Iseler: All right.

Thanks so much buddy.

Scott Adamson: Thank you Tim.

Timothy Iseler: All right.

I'll talk to you soon.

Scott Adamson: Bye.

Timothy Iseler: Bye.

Thank you to Scott for
talking with me today.

You know, a funny thing happens
when I have these conversations.

There's usually about three to
six weeks between the time that we

record and when I finally publish an
episode, and in that time I mostly

forget the things we talked about.

And this conversation, like many
others, was a really pleasant surprise

to listen back to during editing.

I remember feeling like the
conversation kind of ended on a

down note when we recorded it.

But when I went back and listened
again, I realized how Scott has such a

positive attitude about the struggles
he's had with the production academy.

And I think there are really
important lessons in that.

Even though things didn't go the way he
wanted, Scott was still able to learn some

really important lessons that will help
him in everything he does going forward.

I really appreciate that perspective.

So thank you to Scott Adamson for
speaking with me, and again, you

can learn more about the Production
Academy at theproductionacademy.com.

That's it for today's episode.

I will be back next week to
discuss what we talk about

when we talk about investing.

I'll give you a hint: it is not
obsessively watching the markets all

day and coming up with complicated
strategies to spot short-term trends.

Instead, investing is something
much simpler, much more rewarding,

literally and figuratively,
and in fact, much, much easier.

I will see you back here next week.

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